tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31647067.post4405405156684898141..comments2024-02-11T10:58:23.271-08:00Comments on Reading to Know: Life Without Limits, by Nick VujicicCarriehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08772667430500306088noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31647067.post-26933525861571918482012-06-28T11:03:24.975-07:002012-06-28T11:03:24.975-07:00Carrie, I like your detailed explanation regarding...Carrie, I like your detailed explanation regarding the theological problems. Perhaps I can add something to that.<br /><br />The phrase "God helps those that help themselves is indeed, not a Biblical concept. Like a few other things we think we know, this one isn't in the Bible. The concept actually stems from Greek philosophy. The earliest known form of the saying is found in Aesop's fable, "Hercules and the Waggoner." (c. 600 BC) The fable is mentioned by various philosophers as standing for the proposition "The Gods Help Those That Help Themselves," which is how the phrase entered the vernacular. <br /><br />The closest Biblical equivalent I know of is I Peter 2:19-21<br /><br />"For it is commendable if a man bears up under the pain of unjust suffering because he is conscious of God. But how is it to your credit if you receive a beating for doing wrong and endure it? But if you suffer for doing good and you endure it, this is commendable before God. To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps."<br /><br />I would interpret this as having an application in our dealings with adversity. If we are suffering because of our "poor me," helpless attitude, we are not doing right. If we fail to use the knowledge and strength that we have, we are adding to our own problems. So I agree wholeheartedly with your explanation. <br /><br />(Side note: A startling percentage of people also believe that "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need," is also in the Bible. Actually, it is in the Communist Manifesto...)<br /><br />I'm with you on the pep-talk problem. I'm leaning toward thinking that this is in part an introvert/extrovert thing. I have a limited tolerance for excessive emotion in any direction, because it exhausts me.Diary of an Autodidacthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11849157548643091986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31647067.post-63074517009415605752012-06-27T19:39:57.689-07:002012-06-27T19:39:57.689-07:00I haven't read the book or heard of the author...I haven't read the book or heard of the author but he does sound very inspirational. <br /><br />On a side note. I love your further explanation on "God helps those who help themselves." I completely agree. :) That's all.Stephanie Kayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02976709475515458563noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31647067.post-11722791498816828142012-06-27T15:58:42.563-07:002012-06-27T15:58:42.563-07:00Well, I completely agree with every bit of that! T...Well, I completely agree with every bit of that! Thank you for taking time to explain so well! :)<br /><br />I was looking at that phrase much differently, so I'll be more careful with using it now. We were in much more agreement than I thought. ;)Bluerosehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00680170638396181756noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31647067.post-62113870293366346232012-06-27T15:20:38.510-07:002012-06-27T15:20:38.510-07:00@Bluerose - I hear what you are saying (about the ...@Bluerose - I hear what you are saying (about the not arguing bit). Let me see if I can explain my position well.<br /><br />#1 - There is no verse which says, "God helps those who helps themselves." It's a common quip, but it is not scripture. Does God help those who help themselves? No, not always. I could say, "I'm going to help myself win the Nobel Peace Prize and put ten million dollars in the bank with my awesome ability to manage a large corporation." Then i could work towards that goal but that does not obligate God to look down from Heaven and say, "oh. I see someone is working for themselves! I think I will bless that!" He can just as soon say, "Bad idea, Carrie. That's not what I have planned for you."<br /><br />Looking at it more practically even - I might say, "I'm going to go and restore this broken relationship right now. I'm peaceful and persevering. God will bless that." But what God might be saying is, "I value your heart in this, but this is not the time to restore that relationship. I'm working something out in them that you are not aware of. So this relationship is not going to be restored to your satisfaction."<br /><br />I think saying, "God helps those who helps themselves" places the focus on man's ability, instead of God's sovereignty.<br /><br />Now, I'm NOT saying that Nick Vujicic should lay in bed day after day and will his arms to grow. "But God, I've willed it!" No, it's not as we would will, right? God said, "Not going to do it. But I DID give you a brain and the gift of creativity and I expect you to use THAT!" We say, "I want" instead of "as God wills" more often than we shoot and I think this popular quip buys into the idea that it's more about what we want, work for and is in "our" power than about what God would will and work out in us.<br /><br />This does not excuse us to NOT work. As I also said, He gave us a brain and told us we should seek after wisdom. But our ultimate help and strength to do ANY work is to be found in Christ. I don't weed my yard and say, "Look what I have done in my power! Now, God make my plants grow!" I say, "Lord, thank you for the land you have given me to work. I pray for wisdom in tending to it, stregnth and ability to keep working in it and I thank you for the profits or the ability to find food elsewhere if you do not grow it here." Again, it turns the focus in the more correct position.<br /><br />I do have abilities and talents. But they were gifted to me by the Lord and so it ultimately all comes back to Him. I don't like that phrase, "God helps those who helps themselves" because it points to humanity instead of God. It's more of a "Well, we have to do something FIRST." But I would say that there is nothing that we do FIRST as we have nothing apart from Christ. We are dead in our sin and trespasses until He makes us alive in Christ, etc. It doesn't start with me . . . (and whatever I have to offer comes from Him anyway.) <br /><br />Does this. . . .help to explain where I'm coming from? (I can try again, if not.)Carriehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08772667430500306088noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31647067.post-60081432713955628502012-06-27T13:33:14.937-07:002012-06-27T13:33:14.937-07:00I've had this out from the library but just di...I've had this out from the library but just didn't get to it. It's been on my to read list since. My kids saw him at a youth conference and said he was really inspirational.Susannehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02757963698816530787noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31647067.post-53672132016363140452012-06-27T12:46:45.870-07:002012-06-27T12:46:45.870-07:00I'm definitely not trying to argue here. I GEN...I'm definitely not trying to argue here. I GENUINELY want to understand what you're getting at! :) <br /><br />I don't understand how "God helps those who help themselves" is wrong. If it's wrong, then why do we read books teaching us how to be better. "Made to Crave" was at the top of your blog, so I'll use it as an example. If God decides each and every time I eat too much sugar, causing my weight to go up, why read that book? If His plan is for me to be overweight, why bother?<br /><br />Another example: I can pray all I want for alone time in the morning for Bible study, and have it given to me, but I've still got to get my tail up out of bed to take advantage of it. <br /><br />Each and every time I sin, is that God's choice, in your opinion?<br /><br />Am I misunderstanding? Again, NOT trying to argue. My mind just isn't completely wrapping around what you're getting at. I'm too curious to not break out of my comfort zone here. ;)<br /><br />And, I do very much believe God is holding me in His palm, with great plans for me, as opposed to watching from a distance. But, I've always believed in the saying, "Pray life everything depends on God, and work like everything depends on me."Bluerosehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00680170638396181756noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31647067.post-74177702834033206262012-06-27T10:41:44.486-07:002012-06-27T10:41:44.486-07:00I like this guy a lot, and I might look up some of...I like this guy a lot, and I might look up some of his talks. I probably will skip the book because I feel like I'd come away with the same conclusions.<br /><br />That is so awesome that he got married! :-)<br /><br /><br />....*ahem* also thank you for linking. It made my day!BerlinerinPoethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06853762912371387793noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31647067.post-16000008482692758412012-06-27T08:40:48.138-07:002012-06-27T08:40:48.138-07:00My mother-in-law read this, I think, back when she...My mother-in-law read this, I think, back when she was still reading, and said she couldn't put it down. I wasn't inclined to read it myself, but I can definitely see how it would help to put one's own difficulties into perspective. I'd agree with your theological perspectives. I do see B's point above. It was said even of Hudson Taylor that he prayed as if everything depended on God and worked as if everything depended on him. Overcoming obstacles does involve prayer as well as hard work, but it's with God as a very present help who energizes our labors (in relation to obstacles -- in relation to our right standing with Him, He has done all the work). Or, as someone at my alma mater used to say, "God's not going to do your math homework for you," but He will help you with it if you ask Him.Barbara H.http://barbarah.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31647067.post-58103900136660387692012-06-27T08:09:19.991-07:002012-06-27T08:09:19.991-07:00It seems like the expression "God helps those...It seems like the expression "God helps those who help themselves," while not entirely wrong (to me, at least), probably needs to be qualified a bit. As you point out, it's frequently misinterpreted and inclines toward weak theology. (I heard an expression recently that I liked a little more: "Pray to catch the bus, and then run as fast as you can." I don't know that it's much stronger theologically -- or, frankly, that it has any theology in it! -- but it seemed to capture the idea a little better.)<br /><br />This book does look like a great read, although not necessarily for all :)Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09964373798194372154noreply@blogger.com